Your point being?
May 19, 2008 by Polly Styrene
Plenty has been written already about the 20 reasons for 20 weeks campaign to reduce the time limit for abortions to 20 weeks brought to you courtesy of conservative MP Nadine Dorries. Like this excellent article by Kira Cochrane in the Guardian. So I won’t bother repeating them. No I’d just like to draw your attention to Reason 15:
Very few if any UK graduates are now willing to perform abortions beyond 16 weeks. Almost all doctors performing late abortions in the UK, in BPAS clinics, are from overseas.
And?
And?… All ‘overseas’ (read, not white here) doctors are barbaric ‘baybeez killers’ and us White Doctors will uphold all things that are ‘civilized’ and ethical.
Oh dear…
Hi folks, I don’t know what happened to this but it got published twice - it was nothing to do with the 3 pints I just had, it disappeared when I published it I swear, it’s wordpress’s fault.
Anyway - as I said above, if you want further of the wit and wisdom of Ms Dorries read the 20 reasons - most of them not much better than the above. 0r put ‘Nadine Dorries lies’ into google.
I’ve deleted the duplicate one now by the way.
But 18 is pretty good as well:
“Pregnancy testing kits are freely available at chemists and there is now little excuse for not diagnosing pregnancy long before 20 weeks.”
Apart from - you’re a terrified teenage girl in denial, you’re a woman who wrongly thought she was in menopause, you’ve got a condition which means your periods continue (this can happen if you continue to take the pill as well, which a lot of women do, not realising they’re pregnant), you are on methadone (which stops your periods), etc, etc, etc.
And having finally ‘diagnosed’ pregnancy (is it an illness then), you then have to make your way through the minefield of trying to get an abortion. Most of which aren’t done on the NHS, so you have to pay something even at a charity.
Or you simply have no ’symptoms’ of pregnancy (teh sis wasn’t convinced until the midwife found a second heartbeat).
An old lady said to me when I was very young ‘no one gets pregnant nowadays unless they want to’. I have serious problems with my elders and betters being so thoroughly wrong
freely available
Does that mean they’re free? Is it worth commenting on teh sis’s horrified reaction when I mentioned their existence I ain’t doing that!
Very few if any UK graduates are now willing to perform abortions beyond 16 weeks.
All that means is same-old ‘wimmins don’t own themselves’. It doesn’t make it right.
Classic ’sneak-through’ attempt.
All ‘overseas’ (read, not white here) doctors are barbaric ‘baybeez killers’ and us White Doctors will uphold all things that are ‘civilized’ and ethical.
Totally sparks.
Argh. I got as far as Reason 2.
Trotting out this kid and that kid that ’survived’ below 24 weeks. What they fail to mention is that these kids DON’T survive without MASSIVE (read: expensive) medical intervention and machines that go *ping*. No, we must keep it nice and emotive and think of all the perfectly formed baybees popping out at week 22. I have the feeling (Sparks, you may know more) but a lot of these premies have ongoing health problems, essentially because they have not fully formed/developed.
And of course, the whole other point of these “no to late abortions” thing is that they like to put it on ‘irresponsible wimmins deciding on a whim’.
I really should read all sources before commenting!
Seems that Ms Cochrane also made that point:
Many of her main points hinge on viability; so, for example, she mentions baldly that there have been “high-profile cases of babies surviving well below 24 weeks”, which is true, but a) is arguing on the basis of highly unusual cases (a recent report found that of those born at 23 weeks, fewer than 10% left hospital and many were severely impaired), and b) isn’t the point of this debate.
The protest is on tonight (although I question an effectiveness after the vote?)
Tuesday 20 May, 5.30pm
Outside Parliament - Old Palace Yard, opposite St Stephen’s Entrance
Defend 24 Weeks – no reduction in abortion time limit
http://www.abortionrights.org.uk/content/view/253/1/
Penny Red’s 24 reasons for 24 weeks is good.
http://pennyred.blogspot.com/2008/05/24-reasons-for-24-weeks-pro-choice-call.html
polly, my comment went into the evol spam filter.
Wow, that list is seriously rubbish. Take #12 fr’instance. Click on the link and what do you see? The RCP say that mental health is on one of the factors that should be considered in the medical treatment of pregnant women. This supports a reduction in the time limit how exactly?!
I wrote to my MP in February, by the way, when Cameron came out in support of the time limit reduction, and have been hounding him since then with no result except an email telling me there were more pressing issues he needed to look at. Wonderful.
Oh they are always, always trying to claim that if you have an abortion it makes you mentally ill. They are ignoring the fact that IF (and it’s a big IF) women who have late abortions have higher rates of mental illness than women who don’t, the mental illness could be one of the reasons the woman wasn’t able to seek abortion earlier - in other words confusing cause and effect.
Most of the women I know who have had big guilt issues after having abortions are younger - which kind of suggests to me that it’s not unconnected with all the pressure that’s put on about the issue nowadays. If you are going round calling someone a murderer when they already feel like shit that is meant to help them how exactly?
Or maybe post abortion depression is not much different from post-partum depression - in a biological sense.
Or maybe women are in really stressful circumstances anyway and that’s why they have an abortion…
The vote hasn’t happened yet. It says ten o’clock on the BBC.
But actually sparks you are probably right. Post natal depression is largely thought to be caused by the rapid drop in oestrogen, which is a neuro transmitter. Depression at menopause is caused by the same thing. That’s why the appropriate treatment is actually HRT - which is apparently safe again now, I wish these doctors who know everything could make up their mind for more than 2 minutes….
http://www.escriber.com/trendsinugsh/features.asp?Action=View&ID=356&GroupID=&Page=1
The other argument that pisses me off -
“why didn’t you use contraception, the pill (or whatever) is 95% effective”
Yes - that means if 100 women use it for a year, 5 of them will get pregnant. Lots of my little nieces and nephews around from this method (my family is super fertile).
From the grauniad’s live streaming of the debate….
So have they found out what causes children to grow into Tory MP’s then? And didn’t the boy wonder William Hague boast about his alchohol consumption at one point?
“His own research has found that children of single parents are more likely to experience social problems ranging from unemployment to alcohol dependence, he tells MPs.”
His own “research” ding…ding…ding
Maybe Cecil Parkinson helped him….
They’ve just rejected 12 weeks and now they’re voting on 16. Hurry up I want to go to bed!
Okay, many moons ago I spent two years working on Gynae. At this time, the upper limit for abortion was 28 weeks and eventually due to medical / technical advances, this was reduced to 24 weeks. Now, they want to reduce the upper limit to 20 weeks, even though we have not had any significant or major advances in neo-natal medicine.
Clue - you can only push “viability” back so far. This is about the gradual erosion of women’s reproductive rights.
Sounding familiar?
ps I know everyone knows this anyways…
All these anti-abortion tactics emanate from anti-abortion groups thriving in the US. Same old tactics being applied - don’t try to repeal abortion laws just work at chipping away the time limit until eventually abortion will become illegal.
But why aren’t all these anti-abortionists protesting about violence and war since war in itself destroys so many human lives.
Clever old patriarchy it always finds new ways of denying women their human rights.
Ok those results in full:
12 weeks
MPs voted resoundingly against by 393 votes to 71, a majority of 322.
16 weeks
Another defeat for the anti-abortion lobby. MPs voted against by 387 votes to 84, a majority of 303.
20 weeks
Again rejected, a third defeat for the anti-abortion lobby - this time by 332 votes to 190, a majority of 142.
22 weeks
DEFEATED 304 to 233, a majority of 71
Hurrah!!!
I knew that we would win…
My favourite comment of the whole debate:
On the ‘need for a father’
“Pete Wishart, an SNP MP, questions how the Tories would define a male role model. “Who qualifies? Celebrities? David Beckham, Andy Murray? A pop star…?”
Nadine Dorries is on the radio now claiming MPs are out of touch with public opinion, this is the woman who thinks that feminism is bad because her daughters have to pay their way on dates.
And after that blogging drama - we need this….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBRI3iHmLys
Re the male role model, I found this in the Mail - of course.
“Iris Robinson, of the Democratic Unionist Party, claimed the Government was “airbrushing out” the role of fathers. Some MPs wanted to “facilitate immorality” and put lesbians’ rights above everyone else, she added. “I stand by my faith and I stand by the word of God that says Man was created in the image of God and woman was created from the rib of Adam,” she told the House.
“She became the helpmate and the companion of Man. It is the natural progression of procreation”
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1020344/Fathers-arent-needed-say-MPs-Commons-decides-IVF-babies-male-role-model.html
Isn’t it about time we separated out this religious shit from politics?
The usual conservative position where any change in the family is seen as destabilizing and must be avoided before we have the complete breakdown of order. (!) Of course the right wing ’family’ is a heterosexual unit based on marriage and all that is ‘traditional’ ‘natural’ and ‘god-given’
Gawd I need an anaesthetic…please don’t let them win the next election.
What they omit of course is that Adam and Eve’s sons married their sisters, because they were the only people around…
But not everyone who works for the Mail is barking….
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/columnists/article-513241/Deborah-Ross-Eager-to-old-fashioned-values-guru-says-whats-wrong-wife-beating-child-slavery.html
I have to say that if I was going in for immorality my idea of fun isn’t hanging round an IVF clinic, paying thousands for a procedure that only has a 10% chance of working. Think of the drugs you could buy with that!
And as someone pointed out on the grauniad blog, why isn’t Mrs Robinson at home cooking and cleaning?
Polly, are you telling me that there may be a logic flaw in teh bible? Oh noes!
Now, weren’t the tablets given to Moses written by the big cloud dude himself? Or dictated direct from the cloud dude? For such a valuable bits of rock, you would think they would have taken better care of them. Or perhaps they just made the whole thing up?
I was five when I saw the flaws in the book of fairy stories. What’s taking these adults so long? And why do they have the need to thrust their Big Book of Patriarchy on women?
Father-figure needed my ass. Plenty of kids are conceived the regular way. And plenty of dudes skip out on the deal of sticking around. So from what I can see, father-figure = avoid responsibilities. Such a great thing to teach kids.
Ah, I liked the link. Exactly, what IS ‘traditional’?
Another example of the secret resistance cell at the Male methinks. Deborah Ross is very funny, but she used to work for the Independent - I can only assume the Male offered her more money, but she seems determined to subvert them.
AARGHHHH! My MP voted ‘Aye’ for the reduction to 22 weeks.
Mine didn’t even bother getting his arse there.
BUT YOURS…get him sorted.
An assumed ‘him’ that is ?
It’s probably not a wild assumption there sparks.
Absolutely NONE of the parties have anywhere near 50% representation by females. Even though we make up at least 51-fucking-percent of the population.
Post-feminist age. Kiss my ass.
Yup I think he’s a christian sparks. I will still write and complain though.